FI With 5 Kids and Debt-Free in Just Over a Decade!

Mindy:
Fire in your mid thirties with $150,000 in debt and five kids, this might seem impossible, but Joel and Emily paid off their debt in under three years and achieved fire by age 36. I cannot wait to share with you how they did it. Hello, hello, hello and welcome to the BiggerPockets Money podcast. My name is Mindy Jensen and I am joined today by none other than the Kyle Mast.

Kyle:
Hey, Mindy, it is so good to be here. I’m so excited people, you are in the right place if you’ve got five kids and you want to get your financial house in order because we really do believe that financial freedom is something that everyone can work towards. Everyone can attain no matter where you are, how many kids you have or don’t have or where you’re starting.

Mindy:
Today we are going to discuss how to pay down debt fast. We’re also going to talk about understanding the why of your financial journey and how one side hustle could cover 200% of your expenses. Now let’s get into the show. Joel and Emily, thank you so much for joining us today. I’m so excited to talk to you.

Joel:
Thanks for having us, Kyle and Mindy.

Mindy:
Okay, we’re going to jump right into it. Our listeners love transparency. So this is a question for you both. How old are you? Where are you living? What was your job before you quit and how much were you making? I’m going to go with Emily first.

Emily:
I’m 36 years old. I spent 10 years working as an occupational therapist in both healthcare and education. We live in Dubuque, Iowa.

Joel:
Right on. I’m a teacher physical education. I was in the classroom for 10 years as a social studies teacher. Emily was making around 50 grand a year and we’ll add that answer into the question and then when I started as a coach and teacher, we started at 35,000 combined there while Emily was in grad school. And then teacher s salary is around 50 grand.

Mindy:
Okay, so rolling in the dough. How did you rack up $150,000 of debt? What was that 150,000 comprised of?

Emily:
That was all student loan debt, so we didn’t have any consumer debt. So we got married in 2010. I had just finished my undergraduate degree and was going right in the fall into a master’s program that was 25,000 a year. So by the end of that all is where we got to the 150,000 of student loan debt.

Joel:
And we picked private schools of course, because why not get a bigger bill,

Mindy:
Go big or go home.

Joel:
We started at 150,000 in debt and that was a pretty big weight on our shoulders and by happenstance we went over to a friend’s house in the area and he threw us Dave Ramsey’s a total money makeover, which really became our roadmap in the early stages of what we were doing and we just started to snowball that debt.

Kyle:
That’s awesome. What was the age when you were at the highest point of your debt? What were you guys’ ages at that 150,000 point?

Emily:
We were 22 and 23 when we got married, so we did accrue more debt through graduate school. But yeah, we started paying down debt during the time that I was in school. And so like Joel mentioned, we were living on teacher’s salary and right those couple months before we met this friend and heard of the Dave Ramsey plan, it was not a fun conversation that we just kept having over and over. We would get to the end of a month and have nothing, literally $0 and we weren’t, neither of us wanted to go down the consumer debt route. We didn’t have credit cards, we didn’t want credit cards at that point, so we just kind of felt like we were on this journey with no plan and that’s kind of what gave us the plan.

Mindy:
Dave Ramsey is great to get you from negative net worth to zero and he’s got plans to get you past zero net worth, but I like to stop following him then and go on with different plans.

Joel:
He was great. He was really, really good in the beginning and then yeah, we kind of graduated. I guess I remember it was around Covid time and it’s kind of like what do we do with our hands now because we had paid off our home, but that’s when we started to, we stumbled upon financial independence that whole term and that took us down a rabbit hole. That’s been a heck of a lot of fun.

Mindy:
I’m familiar with that rabbit hole. So what was your money situation outside of the $150,000 in debt? Did you have any savings? Did you have any investments?

Joel:
No, we had nothing. We were renting, I think it was around 700 bucks a month is what we were paying in rent and we didn’t have any investments at that time. I was working at a public school, so we had a public pension program. So I guess embedded into that was a little bit of savings, but by the time I switched over into private schools, I think it had accrued about 6,000 bucks, so essentially zero. And then savings wise or money stores, we had almost nothing. I think once Dave Ramsey started, we followed his plan kind of right to the T. So we had a thousand dollars saved up for an emergency fund

Emily:
And I had worked all through college. I just didn’t have a job right away going into graduate school, I wasn’t sure exactly what I’d be able to handle with the full course load. And so I don’t remember. Sometime within that first year I did start working and worked 30 to 40 hours a week on top of doing graduate school, but it was a job that I could do my studying at the job. So it was a pretty perfect job and it paid really well for that time of our lives. It was like $20 an hour and that actually helped us because we had the Dave Ramsey plan. We were able to pay my third year in graduate school in full, so the $25,000, we didn’t have to take a loan out for that year.

Kyle:
Tell me a little bit more, Dave Ramsey, you guys touched on it a little bit. He does such a good job of the roadmap. You mentioned you had the thousand dollars. There’s all these questions that come up when you want to pay off debt. It’s like where do I start? Which one do I pay off first? How much should I have for an emergency fund? What kind of debt is okay, what one is terrible? I want to ask you guys, how did it feel? Maybe we can give some of these people some motivation as you started down that snowball and for those that are listening, the snowball is basically paying your lowest payment of debt first. So your lowest monthly payment has nothing to do with the interest rate. And the Dave Ramsey idea there is that it gives you a behavioral edge because say you have a $30 a month payment on a credit card and you just need to pay $1,500 to get that credit card paid off, you hit that, wow, now I got one less debt, it’s gone and I have $30 to add to the next highest monthly debt, which maybe is $76.

Kyle:
And you snowball and stack those. How did that feel for you guys once you started doing that? Once or twice with these, I’m guessing you had these student loans and they’re probably broken up into different years and for each of you you have several different loans, it’s not one big one. How does that feel and did you run into any resistance for you guys making that difficult? Just thinking about someone who hasn’t quite started it yet and maybe encouraging them a little bit?

Joel:
Yeah, I would start with exactly what you talked about, the behavior part of it. So when we began, we were aimless, we were roadmap less, and then we find this book and he kind of goes against maybe conventional wisdom of pay your highest interest first. So we just followed it and man, when we paid that first loan, it was like, holy crap, we can do this. And then we rolled that into another one and it really became a game. We kind of gamified it to be honest. So things really, he talks about the snowball effect. It certainly was that way for us where we just went one to the next. Any amount of money that we had left over, it went a hundred percent towards that next loan. And just like he said, within three years we had it completely paid off.

Emily:
It felt really good. It helped with discipline because all of us are going to struggle with motivation. Motivation’s not going to be there some days.

Kyle:
Alright, stay tuned for more on Emily and Joel’s journey to just after this quick break.

Mindy:
Welcome back to the BiggerPockets Money podcast. Let’s jump back in with Joel and Emily. Did you have a fine number when you first started you discovered financial independence, you’re like, that’s what I want to do. Did you have a fine number in mind?

Joel:
When we started on the path, it was just even learning. There’s so much misunderstanding on retirement and that’s what we found in talking with our parents and talking with people that are going down that path is they just don’t even know what the finish line is. So how can they know when you’ve crossed it? So once we just found that 25 times our annual spend, it was a very definitive line and we spend around 40 grand a year is about what it takes for us to provide for our family. I think that’s kind of what our superpower is. So a million bucks was kind of what our number was once we hit that. And then just with compound interest, how quickly that can become more, which is pretty exciting.

Emily:
And I think paying off our debt and having a really tight budget and very intentional budget for many years worked to our advantage because then when we discovered five, we were able to say, oh, we know what our annual spend is. And I would kind of go off what he said in terms of knowing when can you retire. It’s amazing to us how many people don’t know how much they spend and what it costs for them to live each year. They just can’t even answer that question. So I think even if you don’t have debt, if you don’t have a budget, it might be advantageous to kind of start there.

Mindy:
That is something that is so surprising to me. The more I talk to people about their FI number and their FI journey, the more I realize that it is so much about what you’re spending and being conscious of where your money’s going. Everybody has something they can cut from their budget. It might not be something that you want to cut from your budget. It might not be something that you need to cut from your budget, but everybody has something they can cut back on so that they can stop spending so much money. If they’re in a pinch, they lose their job. There’s lots of things you can cut back on. You don’t have to go to the movies, you don’t have to go out to dinner, you don’t have to do, there’s lots of things you can stop doing, but there’s also a lot of things you can stop doing when you’re on your journey to phi. Did you leave anything in your budget, like fun things that you left in that you’re like, this is not going to come out?

Joel:
So when we were first married a young couple right out of college, we left $30 a month in our budget for a date night. That’s a true number too. That’s what we spent. So we have to get creative on that, but that’s what we spent for a number of years. We’re going on our monthly budget of $30 a date. It’s kind of laughable now, but we had that and then we also enjoyed vacations. I live for vacation, I really do. And we just have been really lucky that we both have families that enjoy to getting lake houses for a week in the summer. So there’s kind of embedded, we don’t have to pay for that or not very much of it. And then we have a friend that had a house near Copper Mountain, so that became our winter vacation type of thing. So because he had the home and lodging was provided and then getting really creative, finding a hack for virtually everything like ski tickets in Colorado that are incredibly expensive, there’s a way to do that a lot cheaper. And so we would a couple hundred bucks, we would make sure we were having fun along the way.

Emily:
Dave Ramsey does talk about budgeting in for things that are in the future. So it’s not like you have to cut out all vacations and all fun, just you have to be intentional about it and you have to plan ahead. Same thing for gifts or on the holidays or birthdays or whatnot, not letting those things creep up that they’re going to come up plan for it. And then another thing kind of thinking even just to the big three, spending items on your day-to-day living, we kind of figured out ways to get creative with those when we were traveling as well. So making our own food instead of eating out when we went to copper, allowed us to make those kinds of trips happen even when we were paying down our debt.

Mindy:
Emily, you just said the I word intentional. You have to be intentional with your spending and you have to find hack and you have to do all of this stuff. And that’s what I think is so important. And the difference between somebody who does reach financial independence and somebody who is leading the more traditional American lifestyle of not really thinking about retirement right now, and that’s being intentional with your money because your life isn’t really all that different from the traditional American not thinking about retirement person and their life. They probably have more stuff in their life, but you have a similar level of happiness because you are working towards a goal. You’re like, I am purposely foregoing the latest iPhone and brand new clothes and a trip every weekend so that I can become financially independent and then get the latest iPhone and my expenses are all taken care of. Money’s all taken care of. I love that word intentional.

Joel:
And I think just Scott, who’s not with us right now, but in a previous episode he talked about artificial scarcity. We really live that way. We could be living pretty high life stuff, but we certainly are happy with the life that we’ve been able to build for our family. And it’s artificial scarcity is kind of we give ourselves. For the past year when we weren’t working a W2 job out of the business, we were getting $1,500 twice a month is what we were living off of and we managed to make it work. And during that time we visited seven countries and had all five of our kids at home and it was a fun ride.

Kyle:
Okay, so I have so many thoughts running through my head here, so I just want to call out a couple things. So I want to highlight that $40,000 a year superpower that we don’t want to skip over that. That is something that if people are intentional on the amount that they spend, you’re not only saving and paying down your debt and saving for the future, but if you’re learning how to live on less and make your money go farther, you are moving the finish line closer to you. You’re not speeding up towards the finish line, you’re doing that, but you’re also moving that finish line closer because you don’t need as much of your nest egg to create the $40,000 a year. And then I’d also like to say I’m very much about family and kids and what you guys are doing even now, the artificial scarcity that you’re talking about, living in a way that your kids will just feel the aura of that even if you’re not talking about it a whole lot.

Kyle:
They will see how you’re living, how you’re producing, but also how you’re spending. And they will glean that over time. That’s a very powerful thing to be able to show your kids that you can have fun. You can go to lake houses, you can go to different countries, but you don’t have to be spending on really expensive things. You can have the same amount of happiness, probably more not having the latest in tech or items because all that stuff just pulls from you all the time. Anyways, this is really cool. Let’s jump now. We’ve got the debt thing going on. What happened after you paid down the debt? There’s some other things to your story here as far as side hustles. What’s your why for the financial independence and then what transition did you make as far as investing other things financially? I’m throwing a whole bunch at you here, but I want to transition from the, as Dave Ramsey would say, the gazelle intensity to living the way that you guys feel the purpose in your life is meant to be. And usually people that go for financial independence, you have some reason, some why for that. Why are you doing it and how are you doing it?

Joel:
I’ll start with how we stumbled across fire and I think a lot of us share a similar story that are going down this path and that is Mr. Money mustache is shockingly simple math behind early retirement. So that’s where I started and got really excited and really motivated. But then in comes Emily to insert the Y, so maybe this is where you jump in and say, because I was like, Hey, we can six more years of living like this and we’re done. And then Emily said,

Emily:
I was like, what in the world? I’m not going to continue down this path. This is crazy. But then silly story. So since we had such a tight budget, there were things at the time, let’s see, we had two kids and there were just little things that I wanted, didn’t need but wanted to get for them. Once we paid off our debt, I got a couple of those things that I wanted didn’t need. They ended up in the trash a week and a half later. They were just junkie. And then I was like, well, there’s literally just $20 in the trash. So that’s when we kind of were like, okay, we can be more free with our money a little bit right now, but do we really want to? And we did have a different why when we were paying off our debt. It was because both of our parents had co-signed and we had seen how that didn’t go super well with other people that we knew that the co-signer ends up saddled with the debt that people can’t pay.

Emily:
So we didn’t want to do that to our parents. So that was my biggest motivator is I really just don’t want to be in the way of what they want to financially achieve in life. And then when we were paying off our home similarly, I just kind of didn’t want debt. I didn’t want to have to worry about that payment. And so then when we got through that and we had our home paid off, I kind of just felt like we could breathe and maybe loosen the reins a little bit. But then within those first few months, I realized that that’s not really what it was about. Anyway, we had everything that we wanted and needed in our family and in the experiences we were having. We getting creative with finances and repurposing things, buying things secondhand, going without things. A couple of years ago our microwave broke, we just never replaced it and we still don’t have one. And there came a point or when I realized, okay, I’m going to be more open to this financial independence. And also a lot of the things within this movement we were kind of doing, we just didn’t know the terms or the lingo of it, trimming things along the margins. We had been doing that for years and years. It just kind of gave us terms and gave us the next step.

Kyle:
So you paid off your debt. That’s only one part of the equation, getting this debt payment out of here. And then how did you accelerate towards financial independence?

Joel:
So it was February 12th, 2020, right before the world shuts down. We had paid off our home and at that point it was like, what do we do with our hands? I thought I was like everybody thinking they know something about investing in the stock market without actually opening a book and whatever. That’s when the whole fad of essentially gamifying investing. So I fell victim of that for a couple months, but then my world completely changed with a simple path to wealth and jail, Collins stock series, I’m over here, this was the thing, I am hiding. I can’t wait to read the next post. And I had all the answers in my head. Things started to kind of make sense so we could expand our investments. But honestly right now we’re a hundred percent equity. We’re in V-T-S-A-X and chill and that’s where we’re at. We’re feeling pretty comfortable and obviously in the last 20 months we’ve been killing it.

Joel:
So that’s always nice. We know things are going to change, but I think we certainly have power over our emotions when that happens. So we saw our net worth drop quite substantially during Covid, those couple of months or whatever. But then having it rise again, that really kind of solidified into us everything that J Collins was talking about. And as you start to see these parallels between your show choose AFI and just the whole financial independence world merging together, it’s like, geez, we’ve taken care of our expenses. The investment side, we wanted to, you got your W2 income, you got your investments, you got real estate, which we went down that road side hustle. So we were just trying to check the boxes in essence, and that’s what we did.

Kyle:
So V-T-S-A-X, the stock series by J Collins. Just for listeners who don’t know what that is, it’s definitely read his book talking about index fund investing, the simplest way to invest really that you can invest. But then I want to hear, I’m going to dig a little deeper. Where’d the V-T-S-A-X money come from? Is this just the margin that you have now from the difference in getting rid of your debt payments? So from your normal jobs or I heard real estate and I heard side hustles. Where’s this money that’s being funneled into your investments to achieve financial independence? Coming from

Emily:
Another little funny story in a time, I’ve eaten my words through our financial journey many times and one big one was the side hustle that is, I was wrong. The first summer after we were married, we started a business or he started a business and I was like, actually it wasn’t a business at that point. Anyway, long story short, I was like, you need to get a real job and make some more money so we can have a little bit more. And

Joel:
Daddy got a real job.

Emily:
Yeah, it’s a fine job now.

Joel:
So yeah, to add to what Emily’s saying, we paid off our student loans in three years. We paid off our house in 55 months and where did the money come from? 50% Emily’s share. And then it’s each side hustle that we’ve kind of added. It’s almost like having another earner in the family to be honest. So we have wrestling camps that we do and they’ve really just exploded and just have had great growth and they’ve allowed us to do a lot. That money was in there. And then from that just kind of talent stacking that, I started an additional side hustle. Each side hustle was met with resistance and not so much that Emily was like, I need to do a better job of communicating what the vision and plan was. I just kind of started like, oh yeah, I started a business too, and then it would end in a kind of not good. So I don’t suggest going about it that way, but each one of those have really, it’s cooking with gas at this point.

Emily:
Well, and I think what Joel has been really what he’s really good at is just taking the next step. He’s like, we’re going to do this camp. Our kids can’t afford to go to a camp that anyone else is putting us. We’re just going to do our own. And from there, keeping that same vision of providing kids with experiences that in an affordable way, it’s just really grown and taken off. And so he has been really good at like, I’m just going to jump in and do it. I’m going to learn along the way. I’m not going to have the whole vision. I’m just going to have this step of the vision and then we’re going to grow from there. That is how you need to start businesses. I am more the one who’s like, I just want to have all of it in a row and I would’ve held all of this back if it were in my hands. It’s good that he just was like, okay, she’s mad. Oh, that’s right. She’ll get over it.

Mindy:
She’ll get over it. That’s not a phrase you should ever say, Joel,

Joel:
I never did, but guess what? She did get over it. No, I’d never go down that path. And that’s where the communication part came in and I needed to do a better job kind of talking about the vision and it just, when these things start, and this is with any business or side hustle, you don’t really know where it’s going to go or what’s going to happen, but you kind of have an itch there. So you just kind of go. And in both those cases, last year I had two wrestling camps. We serviced 3000 kids from, I don’t know, 35 states coming from all over the country. And then I’ve got an online business as well. We could in essence just live off of one of those, which is really nice because a lot of times people talk about it being risky or whatever. Just having one W2 job that’s really risky. One of our best friends just lost his W2 job based on downsizing. Right. Well now it’s just a piece of the puzzle.

Mindy:
We have to take one final break, but we’ll hear more about life after Phi for Emily and Joel.

Kyle:
Alright, let’s jump right back in. So I’m hearing a trend here and I love it when I meet these personalities of Joel who gets these itches in his brain of things that he wants to start. I’m guessing you probably have five other ideas in your head right now that you want to start at some point. Other people have these ideas and some people get ’em off the ground and some people don’t. So there’s two pieces to it. How do you get it off the ground? And you kind of address that a little bit, so you can touch on that real quick. But the second piece that I would really be curious on is how do you be a good husband and father to five kids when you continually add side hustles additional businesses? Emily, I’d love to hear you chime in on this too, on what has worked for Joel. I think you guys make a good team, but I’d love to hear the dynamic with these side hustles and how that shapes your life balance in general.

Emily:
It’s hard to nutshell all of this. So right around the time that we bought our home and we were about, let’s see, seven or eight years into our marriage, the business, the wrestling camp business was growing. It grew at a pace that neither him or his business partner expected, and it was really hard. And I was working part-time in a rural healthcare setting, basically what it came to. And I was like, gosh, this just doesn’t feel right. This doesn’t feel like how I want my motherhood and how I want my kids’ childhood to go. We were delegating far too much to other people and that’s where basically it just was a lot of real love, real talk conversations of like, yeah, exactly the point I’d heard, I don’t even know where I heard it from, but when you say yes to one thing, you’re saying no to a series of other things.

Emily:
And so we just started having a lot of real conversations about what does that mean moving forward and to the point where we are now. And it was challenging for me to accept, and it took a couple years honestly for me to say, yeah, I’m going to step away from my career that I worked really hard to prepare for and that I had a lot of skills in and knowledge in. But I got to the point through a lot of prayer and reading and discernment really, that I was just going to pour all that that I have learned through life and to my own family because that when it came down to it was what was most important. So we still have conversations and there are times when I just kind of have to pull ’em out of the weeds a little bit so to speak and be like, Hey, what are we spending our time on? And are we being intentional with our time? Really what financial independence has afforded us in these years with our kids being at home and being little is that time is our only non-renewable resource. And how we were spending our time was not in line with our values and where we were putting our energy. We were coming home with near nothing in the tank, getting short with our kids, getting short with each other and it’s like, this isn’t what it’s about and this isn’t how I want to continue.

Joel:
And therein lies the why, which we didn’t fully answer before, but that’s really where we got into. We’ve been blessed in many ways. Businesses continue to do quite well and it’s afforded us a pretty special life. Starting that really last year is when we pulled the plug and traveled everywhere and just have been doing the homeschooling thing, which it’s such a fun thing to talk to people about because you get either like, yes, you’re freaking awesome, or what about the socialization part? And then

Kyle:
The homeschool question,

Joel:
You have five kids,

Mindy:
They’re socializing amongst themselves

Joel:
And actually, you know what I responded. It’s like we’re actually pulling them out because I don’t want them to be socialized by the school kids, so I shouldn’t say that part. But yeah, I mean there’s a little bit of that and I’m also a product of the school system. I mean, I love school so much. I went back and haven’t left yet, so that was something that I really had to grapple with too. But this is a whole tangent that financial independence has afforded us, but it is been a neat area of growth that we’ve kind of gone down the last couple of years.

Kyle:
I love that we’ve finally peeled back the onion of your why. This is what I was looking for and this last five or 10 minutes, this is the why and everyone’s why is different. When people are looking at the financial independence journey, the why is not financial independence. Some people think that it’s like, ah, then I can leave my job. It’s so stressful. You got to have something ready after that. I’ve seen it so many times that if you don’t have something deeper than that, whatever it is, you’re going to be pretty miserable. When you’re financially independent, you’ll have accomplished an amazing goal, but knowing what you’re going to do with that, let’s do some wrestling camps where we have impact on some kids. Let’s impact our own kids. Let’s impact our marriage. So thank you for digging a little bit deeper the last little bit and sharing some of that. I think that’s what financial independence is about and that’s why people should be pursuing it is you’re here for a purpose. This financial independence, you might stay in your same job and that might be your purpose, but it just gives you the flexibility to pivot if you need to.

Mindy:
So with this job that you have, this wrestling camp, do you consider yourself to be fully retired?

Joel:
I’m like you, Mindy. All right. Are we retired? No. Right, but it’s given me just like what Kyle was just kind of alluding to and what he was saying was, you have the option, right? So I took the last year off a sabbatical in the educational world, I guess in my school’s world. It was a one year voluntary leave, not a sabbatical. I did go back, but I’m teaching one class a day, so I go in at 11 o’clock. I wake up every single morning with my kids. I get to work out, see my kids when they wake up. I’ve worked with my 9-year-old, did his math today before I went to school, and then I go and something that really does feed me is working with kids. I go into high school from 11 to 2 45, mentor some kids and then I’m done at 2 45 when I kind of stumbled across that term, barista Fi, lean Phi, all those things, but really barista fi, it really resonated with me.

Joel:
It’s like they wanted me to come back full time and I’m like, geez, my kids are only going to be two and seven and nine and 11 and a brand new baby as well, nine months old. I told ’em, no, I love it. I really want to come back, but I’m only going to go and they’ve been so good to me. They’ve met all of my things. That’s the other part of this. You go down this whole tangent is like you don’t know unless you ask. First I asked, Hey, I want to take a year off. No one’s ever done that at the school that I work with, and then I come back, I’m like, I’d like to work part-time. All my friends, my colleagues are like, what are you doing? And this is what I want to do. This is what really works well for our family and I think it’s a really nice balance right now and will I go back next year? Probably, but we’re taking it one year at a time. Same thing with homeschooling. It’s the right thing for us right now. Financial independence has given the keys to that, so we’re so lucky to be in the position that we are.

Mindy:
Yeah, Kyle and I have a shared Google doc with a little chat in there and Kyle just posted this family is the poster for financial independence. We need one of those. We want you Uncle Sam posters with you guys, so I don’t know how to use AI in that image maker, but somebody grab their images and make that for me, please.

Joel:
Poster child. That’s super nice, Mindy, I appreciate that. But I think more like cliche, we’re like, we did all the things that you were supposed to do and I think the difference between our story and then some of our friends is we just took action on everything. We trimmed at the margins. We maxed out 4 0 1 Ks, we maxed out Roth IRAs, we bought the rental house, we started the side hustle. We just went through the list of the pillars of what financial independence is and didn’t question it or I guess maybe we questioned it a little bit, but it was just we did it all. If we could leave with anything, it would just be to do the work, do the steps. It’s a tried and true thing that as Mindy and Kyle say, it’s for everybody. Wherever you’re at, start now. Start working on your debt, snowball the debt and then geez, we have so many options right now. We are designing the life that we want and that’s really what we’ve spent the last three years on is designing a life, a book that is worth reading, right? That’s the story of our life and not only is it worth reading, but we like to live that story as well.

Kyle:
I appreciate so much you guys on this show. I just feel like this is something that a lot of people can relate to and I especially appreciate you guys did it in this 10 year timeframe, which is a timeframe that just about anyone can do something like this. We just did a BiggerPockets real estate show a little while ago for late starters, and I’ve seen it in my practice too. 10 years is about all you need to make something pretty tremendous happen like this. You guys not only did it, but you are a model of teamwork and a model of balance, not that you got it perfect all the time. I’m not going to put you too high on a pedestal that you’re going to get knocked off of, but to be able to communicate through it and to be able to balance it and through the journey work towards the right purposes, not getting so focused on financial independence that it consumes you completely and then you have nothing to fall back on Through that journey, you were slowly making adjustments with the amount of time that you were working on the side hustle to the amount of time that you were with your kids taking the year off these things that you were building together with the financial independence, and I just think it is so inspiring and I just hope people will listen all the way to the end of this episode and hear every little piece as we dug deeper and deeper.

Kyle:
People need to hear this and need to listen to this because this can be done. Thank you so much for being here and join us for this discussion. Thanks for having us. It’s been a lot of fun.

Mindy:
Joel and Emily, were on our YouTube fire series and we will include a link to that in our show notes, which gives a bit more information about their side hustles and how they reached financial independence. Joel and Emily, it was a delight to talk to you. Again, thank you so much for your time and for sharing your great story with our listeners. Okay, Kyle, that was Joel and Emily and that was so much fun. I love what you said. This family is the poster for phi. Absolutely agree with that 100%. What did you think of their story and this show?

Kyle:
I don’t know what else I can say. I really wanted to thank them there at the end and make sure they heard the good comments that I’m going to say right now when they’re not here with us after the episode because they just nailed this thing called fi on so many fronts, and mostly what I’m impressed by is when people nail fi on the non-financial front, that’s numbers, that’s strategies. You can read about it, you can do it, but they’re communicating as a couple, as a husband and wife. They’re bringing their kids along for the ride. They’re sacrificing time at his job to put it with his kids, and then he’s developing a wrestling camp to impact more kids. I don’t have anything else to say other than this is just awesome. Look at what these people are doing, figure out what your purposes are and just go for it.

Mindy:
You bring up a really good point, Kyle. They are both on the same page and they have open communication. That’s the key to this. If you are on the journey with a partner, you don’t need to be on the same page, but you kind of need to be on the same page. It’s so much easier when you’re both on the same page or at least one of you isn’t actively fighting the other one or sabotaging the other one, and they have that in spades. They are so good at communicating and being a family and being on the same page and moving forward together so that they can build their life together, and we didn’t really dwell on this very much, but they have five children. Granted, one’s a baby, but the baby still takes diapers and food and clothes and all of that, even more clothes than other kids because they’re outgrowing them constantly, but they have five kids and they still reach financial independence in about 11 years. It can be done. It absolutely is possible. Even teachers, they don’t even make any money. Don’t even get me started on how criminal it is that we don’t pay our teachers enough, but I mean they did this on a lower income. They were making a hundred thousand dollars combined, but again, they got five kids that a hundred thousand is going to get eaten up really quick with five kids in a traditional buy. Whatever you want kind of mentality and when you really have to work to dial it in.

Kyle:
Yeah, I mean that right there. There’s people listening going to be like this, this is a hoax that’s not even real and it is. People do this. I’ve seen it in my practice in the past. I would look at people’s budget and be people making a ton of money and have no money, people making no money and have a ton sitting in a bank account because they have good financial habits. It’s real and it is, like he said in the episode, it’s a superpower. That’s not their only superpower. They’ve got a whole bunch of superpowers. That’s just the one that he identified, but they just pieced it all together again. I mean, just a great episode.

Mindy:
Absolutely. I’m so happy that we were able to talk to them again. Alright, Kyle, should we get out of here?

Kyle:
Let’s do it.

Mindy:
That wraps up this episode of the BiggerPockets Money podcast. He is the Kyle Mast and I am Midy Jensen saying, I’ll catch you cactus crew.